I’m actually going to be working on a KWML home study course this year. Maybe that will be useful to those people when it is done.

What kind of workshops do you run?

Thank you for writing this. The questions of what it means to be a man, and what a mature man should be doing with his life, and how he should behave, are questions I have asked for almost my entire life. I am not that old, but I have never found such a concise explanation of it as you have here.

It can be disheartening to go from place to place, hoping to find something which specifically addresses these questions – only to find that it is another gender-neutral empowerment session, that speaks to men and women as if they needed no differentiation at all.

But I think there really is something to be said for identifying in ourselves what it is that really makes us human. People are specifically men or women – we are not just “persons” – and I think that should be acknolwedged and recognized at least at some level.

Good luck with your work on this site!

-PB

I actually have heard Dr. Paul explain his KWML model in a seminar recording and he admits that his model is actually DIFFERENT than Moore’s. So, although there are some similarities in characteristics between the archetypes and they all have the same names, they are not the same models. I’d argue that both models can be useful, but you’d be better served by not comparing them (as I have personally learned) and that Dr. Paul would have done the world a service by naming his archetypes differently.

Paul would also say that the more well rounded you are in the 4 areas, the more you could really be with a significant other from any of the 4 areas. However, Dr. Paul would say many people tend to be primarily one type and have not matured, thus in these cases, they would probably be best with a mate in the “opposite quadrant”. Again, this seems to only apply to Paul’s model as they are different. Paul very cautiously warns against relying on another for filling in this other side of you as it leads to co-dependency and that no matter what, it’s important to develop all 4 areas to lead a fulfilling life.

Dr. Paul also agrees and very much encourages all men to develop all 4 archetypes. Actually, the more you have of as many of the 4 as possible, the more well developed, mature, and complete a man you truly are. Dr. Paul and Moore both seem to agree on that front (although their description of the 4 types and how they interrelate are different…I don’t know all the differences).

I am also a natural magician with a strong king. Eivind was very helpful in explaining to me that they’re not opposites in Moore’s model but all the archetypes interrelate but there is a tension arc between Magician & King. After a few days of thinking about it, I understand the tension arc a bit better (maybe not what David needs to know) as I am constantly balancing my need to have solitude with my thoughts and learning and craving social contact and feeling the need to help people and make the world a better place. So, there is a little tension and opposite stuff there. Only through developing the Lover and the Warrior within me can I manage that tension.

I had a lot of the same questions when I first found both models, so hopefully this is helpful in clarifying.

Mike

Take whatever makes sense for you from Dr Paul’s model and keep it.

Bear in mind, though, that Dr Paul’s work springs out of Robert Moore’s work and Dr Moore wouldn’t put it like this. KWML archetypes aren’t mutually exclusive according to Dr. Moore. They are, in fact, overlapping and serves and influences each other.

That means that in the original KWML model, masculine maturity involves developing all archetypes. In Dr. Paul’s model, it seems to me, it is about embodying “your” archetype more fully and then finding a partner that complements you from the other side of the tension arc.

If that were true – that that is indeed what Dr Paul recommends – then that would contribute to the perpetuation of a fragmented psyche and the relying on another for psychological integration. If it’s merely guidelines for finding the right partner, however, then it would make a lot of sense.

Since I haven’t studied his stuff, I can’t say for sure.

Eivind